I can't believe how many people have thanked me for getting them to look at and into alcohol stoves for backpacking. I am happy to have made so many converts. Those of us who already use them quickly forget how even we viewed them with disdain before we actually tried one out. Then quickly got the bug to make them. People,  here we are on a camping/ hiking newsgroup, all enviromentally minded , recycling concious, yet we drag white gas,kerosene and propane powwered camping gear into the wilderness day in and day out. I don't know about you but I was always taught petroleum _base_d fuels are enviromentally damaging. Unlike alcohol which evaporates and easily mixes with water and is made from corn and wood which doesn't come from the middle east,  funding some terorrists pocket book. I love my Alcohol soda can stove, How about you? Look at one, Want one, Need one, copy one,  don't want to build one,  here is one : FOR SALE:     Pre-made perfectly constructed aluminum can alcohol backpacking stoves. Will boil over 3 cups of water in 6-7 minutes with only an once of fuel (alcohol). Weighs less than an ounce (0.3 oz.). The majority of people completeing  thru-hikes of the Appalachian Trail use soda can alcohol stoves. Correctly made ,perfectly made, BEST, Alcohol stove: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=5180700733&ss... windscreen/pot stand for soda can stove: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=5164214386&ss... Mike

don't know about you but I was always taught petroleum _base_d fuels are enviromentally damaging. Unlike alcohol which evaporates and easily mixes Ok, so I'm a little dense... Saving a coupla ounces of petroleum fuel in the wilderness by using an alcohol stove offets the damage caused by all the GALLONS of fuel burned just getting to the trailhead? I'm sure OPEC's working on a contingency plan right now to cover the reduction in oil sales. Hmmm.... Rick

don't know about you but I was always taught petroleum _base_d fuels are enviromentally damaging. Unlike alcohol which evaporates and easily mixes Ok, so I'm a little dense... Saving a coupla ounces of petroleum fuel in the wilderness by using an alcohol stove offets the damage caused by all the GALLONS of fuel burned just getting to the trailhead? I'm sure OPEC's working on a contingency plan right now to cover the reduction in oil sales. Hmmm.... Rick Just a couple of ounces!!??   Tell that to Coleman and all the outfitters that sell thousands and thousands of gallons of white gas and pressure fuel canisters to all these people just using ounces.  No it isn't near what we waste on our transportation but everything counts.

Just a couple of ounces!!??   Tell that to Coleman and all the outfitters that sell thousands and thousands of gallons of white gas and pressure fuel canisters to all these people just using ounces.  No it isn't near what we waste on our transportation but everything counts. No argument that everything counts, but I love to see people try to save the world by stepping over dollars to pick up pennies. I probably burn more Coleman fuel than most people I know, and even then it's seldom much more than two gallons/yr. Can't remember going over three. OTOH, the local paper recently said the average driver here in California uses 1200 gallons of gasoline per year, and we've got some 30+ million registered vehicles, which probably represents some 15 mil drivers (a drop in the bucket of the world's driving population.) Even if every one of us used 2 gal of Coleman fuel per year, and quit, OR used 2 gal less gasoline per year, my little four banger calculator tells me it's gonna take a magnifying glass to see the difference, less than 2/10 of a per cent. I can vary my auto fuel consumption by a close to a gallon/day just by choosing which of my cars (yeah, I'm one of those evil ones with more than one) to drive on what trips. So I figure it only takes a coupla days to allow me to fill all my Coleman fueled devices guilt free! And, even if I were to switch to alcohol, I'd be giving up $3.50/gal fuel to burn $7.00/gal (in my area) fuel, and more of it, at that (fuel efficiency of those soda can stoves has never impressed me.) The dollars and cents argument trumps principle way too often for way too many people. So I'm not saying don't try to do one's part, I'm just wondering what it takes to get people to do things that really make a difference instead of feel good stuff that does little! Rick

Mike Screw off spammer. Chris

Screw off spammer. Chris I have to be a hypocrite to get this point accross, but, so be it.  I am sick of reading posts that have nothing to do with this newsgroup, i.e. bitching about spammers! At least the spam is a 'camping item where as your bitching about spam has nothing whatsoever to do with the outdoors or camping.  I think the bitching is more degrading to this group then trying to sell a camping article of some kind.  I bought one of those alcohol stoves from that spammer as you say, and I'll be damned if it isn't one of the neatest camping items I have bought in the longest time!  The guy answered all my questions and couldn't have been more helpful. He has hiked the entire length of the Appalachian Trail and has lots of backpacking knowledge. One last thing, did you ever hear the saying no publicity is bad publicity, all publicity is good publicity. Because everytime you post to a spammer's thread you are infact directing everyones attention to that thread/post and advertising it for them. So the best thing you can do is ignore it and not post to it. Ranger Dan Outdoors is my Name